Fool for Christ's sake1 Corinthians 4:10
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Original: 11/10/2008 6:22 PM
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Monday, November 10, 2008

What is at the root of this economic crisis?

 Because nidan and I were talking about this problem on his weblog, and I referred to this unpublished SearchingForAlethia post. Right now, I don't feel now is the right time to publish this over there, but since it was a topic of discussion between myself and nidan, I decided to copy it here. So here goes.

According to Generational Dynamics -- back in the 1950's, there was no doubt in anybody's mind in what caused the Great Depression. Everyone knew. And believe it or not, it could be summed up in one word.

Greed.

In the Great Depression, a whole generation learned the value of saving, the value of working for a living, and the value of living within your means. Those with thousands of credit card debt were in the minority. It actually used to be that you saved 20 to 25 years just to buy a house. In the Great Depression, people moved into the same house together, lived in cramped quarters by today's standards.

Problem is...that generation is now senior citizens or dead. They are no longer running our country. Today, we have baby boomers and their offsprings, the generation X-ers. And we think we know it all. Where is the humility, and respect for our elders?

Today's generation took risks -- they let their greed get the best of them. This is true at pretty much every level in society. Let's start from the top and go down.

1. Wealthy people got greedy.
A: Never before have we seen CEO's making 500 times what the average workers earn. Yeah, even when they run businesses down into the ground, they still walk away wealthy. Accountability is out the window. I think I remember reading in one of Robert Stearn's book that Winston Churchill wrote two letters to the head of England in the midst of a major war in World War II. One of the letter was his resignation letter for a failed military action. The second one was to praise the troops for a task well done. They were successful, so the resignation letter got discarded. But the point is: Winston was fully prepared to resign if his military strategy failed. Do we see that kind of attribute today?

B: They invented ever more complicated, and oftentimes unregulated economic instruments. Like credit default swaps -- which basically lets companies say "if I fail to pay my debt obligation, then you have to cover for it". That is kind of like life insurance for companies. Except...it was abused.

Let me step back a bit -- how could it be abused? Problem is if you sell CDS, you are basically insuring someone else's debt. But if you buy CDS, you get paid when that person defaults. Back to life insurance: it is illegal to buy life insurance on someone else. Why? Because if I buy life insurance on somebody else, then run them over with a car, I get paid (ignoring the legal consequences, that is). Now, this is almost exactly the type of entangled web the financial world has gotten itself in. There is trillions of dollars in this interlocking system where people bet on another company not being able to pay its obligation, sometimes the "bet" involves more money than the debt itself!

C: If a competitor comes up that might be viable, lobby the Congress, shower them with money (some politicians did get greedy here) so that they will pass laws that will help MY business, and help me kill the other guy's business.

D: More recently "Hey, I'm too big to fail, bail me out!"

2. The middle class got greedy.

Admit it: many people have lived beyond their means, running up credit card debt. They also bought house not for the sole purpose of living, but also out of hope that it will continue to increase in price. Yes, even if they couldn't afford the actual mortgage, they listened to the greedy lenders who got commissions on the bigger price tag house. Yes, the real estate brokers and lender brokers were greedy since by selling the house, they get a hefty commission. There was nothing in the system to make them accountable if that loan was to fail! So lot of them made loans that they knew was destined to fail.

3. The poor got greedy.

First, and this is probably part of the politics blame wars -- but out of desire to "help" the poor people get into good houses, the Clinton administration set up a law that required lenders to approve those who cannot afford the loan.

Second, there is plenty of attitude of "entitlement" among the poor that "poor me, I don't have a job, so you have to pay my bills". Seriously, I see it in some deaf friends (love them anyways) that are on SSI and don't see a point in getting a job!

4. Government got greedy

Our elected representatives have jobs too. Their job is to make laws on our behalf. Their job is to represent us. If you are a politician, the last thing you want is an economic collapse on your watch. Little thought is given to the long-term viability. Especially if it is election year this year. You know, if there was anything unique about George W. Bush -- he is the first president in many years for which we were in a recession each time there is an election coming around! Most politicians usually do what they can to be sure the economy is doing well when their job is up to the election.

Nevertheless, what did this lead to? This led to the mindset that the government is responsible for the economy. The politician's job, for better or worse, is often to make sure that if there is the slightest bit of hiccup in the economy, they need to do something to stop it. The stock market actually perpetrated this short-sightedness since businesses and stock owners increasingly focused on short term. Since when does earning 15 cents per share make such a big difference because it doesn't match the "analyst's" 17 cents per share! Show me a business that has stable earnings that grows at 10% every year! That simply isn't realistic, and I don't care if my business earns 10 cents one quarter, then 20 cents the next, then 15 cents the one after that. Lumpiness is how real business is. Enough about that, short term focus is also where Federal Reserve came in. Anytime there was a hint of a hiccup, they had an idea: lower interest rate to pump money into the economy and all will be well. Except...they did that in 2003-2004 with the interest rate at 1% for a year in a time when housing prices were shooting into the stratosphere. Oops. I think Greenspan and Bernanke ought to get on the news network and publicly apologize for their serious lapse in judgment.

That is strike 1. Strike 2 is I suspect that there are businesses that are pouring money into some representatives so that they will vote for issues that interests them. If you decide not to vote for those interests -- they will find someone else who will, pump money into their campaign, and convince the rest of the citizens that the guy they don't like is no good. Remember that those corporations control the media -- so don't believe everything you read or see on TV.

Strike 3: This has been going on for too long. But since when is it a religion that once you are hired as a government employee, you are free to stay a government employee the rest of your life. I'm thankful that lately we see SOME layoffs and cost cutting, but that isn't normal for the government. Especially Federal government. I'd also like to add another one: if you are a government employee, you are shielded from inflation. They automatically raise your salary with inflation, even when the rest of the business world is suffering and people are making cost cutting moves and lifestyle changes in order to deal with their reduced buying power.

Wrapping it up

Yes, sometimes greed, and desires that we have as human can help drive us to improve our life, and the situation around us. The problem is that it is counterproductive when it propels us to do things that we know we cannot afford to do. There is also a somewhat prevailing attitude among today's generation to give a few examples:

1. If he doesn't take care of himself, too bad, tough luck.
Problem with that mindset is that is a bit harsh. That is not conductive to having people work together, and being generous with each other. We need to learn to love one another.

2. I want to do it myself, I don't need anybody else's help.
Look: human need social interaction, we need each other. I see this more often among the disabled who feel entitled to living independent whereas there might be a time coming shortly where it simply is not economically viable to provide the expensive equipments to make such an endeavor possible.

3. There's a program to help that guy, let him get help there, I don't need to do anything.
Seriously, people do think that way, even if only subconsciously. It is hard to see this attitude in our own society, but it is more obvious when you look in another culture. South Korea to the rescue:
Blind masseurs in South Korea

Think through that example. *IF* there was no law saying that all masseurs shall be blind...would you think that this attitude would be prevalent in South Korea that massaging people is the only thing blind people can do? See how laws affect attitude: when there are laws that helps the disabled, people start assuming that the law defines the person's capability, and worse yet that it takes care of ALL their needs. Sorry, but that isn't true.

I'll close with a good story I heard at Flying Hands of Faith. There was this precious brother in Christ who routinely helps deaf people, and advocates for rights of the handicapped. One day, he was at DC for a protest for handicap rights. It was hot and sunny outside, and there was a long line. There was a lady in front of him in a wheelchair that couldn't really move her head or something. He saw a place selling hat on the street side, went in, bought a hat to block the sun, and put it on her head. She was quite grateful that he took care to make sure that her head didn't get sunburned. Let's learn this type of human decency -- it is every one of our responsibility.
 Posted 11/10/2008 6:22 PM - 101 Views - 6 eProps - 16 comments

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Visit jmcd7910's Xanga Site!
"In the Great Depression, a whole generation learned the value of saving, the value of working for a living, and the value of living within your means. Those with thousands of credit card debt were in the minority. "

Did they have credit cards in the 1930's?
Posted 11/11/2008 8:39 AM by jmcd7910 - reply

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I can't believe this... I'm speechless...

You hit so many issues dead on that it's amazing. I remember our economic debates about fifteen months ago and you seemed to be in such a different place than this it's amazing. Seriously this is a great post, I'm going to rec' it.

Posted 11/11/2008 4:52 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@jmcd7910 - They might not have had credit card in the 1930's, but similarly to today, people were buying things on borrowed money back then, and investing in a stock market boom that lasted years. The 1925-1935 era was also the start of the idea that the government has a responsibility to control the economy.

@nidan - Well, you can thank the generational dynamics (www.generationaldynamics.com) website for changing some of my opinions. I still think that it is better if the people help each other out of their own free will (that is why we need those core values), than if the government forces us to do so with taxes and social programs. I also don't think the government can get us out of this. Lot of people are going to have to suffer to learn the right priorities because we rarely ever learn anything from somebody else's experience.

Posted 11/11/2008 5:47 PM by jlyer - reply

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@jlyer - I actually think it's better if people help out of their own free will too. I think it would be better if corporations just didn't take advantage of people the way they do or squash free market competition because it's wrong.

If things like these just happened, if it was our natural tendency, then we'd have no need for governments at all.

Posted 11/11/2008 6:03 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan - I find it amusing that many free marketers also tend to be the lock um up and throw away the key type when it comes to individual crime like simple shoplifting or illicit drug use. What if we deregulated everything? Anarchy is ok (well not really cuz the haves get bailed out and the have nots get fleeced). Guess the same goes with the prolifers tend to be pro-war and vice versa for the other side.

We are all to blame and greed IS the culprit but unfortunately AIG gets bailed out and Alfred Iglesies Gomez loses everything.

Posted 11/11/2008 6:51 PM by tendollar4ways Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@tendollar4ways - I'm sorry I keep getting lost in your rambling. What are you accusing me of having said this time?

Not that it matters, It's not like you actually know whaty issues I believe in, or what I believe on any issue.

Posted 11/12/2008 7:06 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan - Nothing....Don't really know why I adressed you. I figure my comment speaks for itself. Not aimed at you but you did recommend the post. Perhaps that is why I directed it to you...not at you in this case.

Posted 11/12/2008 7:25 PM by tendollar4ways Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@tendollar4ways - Well if that's the case, then it's certainly a welcome change from how you usually address me. Thanks!!!

Posted 11/12/2008 7:47 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan -

@tendollar4ways -



Well...interesting exchange, in that case. I wasn't sure what ten's intent in posting that was, though, but I'd take it that he agrees with a number of things I was saying. That said -- I'm strongly pro-life because I don't believe you can kill innocent life. As for war...I haven't really looked that deep into the just war theology or anything of that sort. I do know, however, that God brought judgment upon people for killing innocent lives, but not for fighting a war that He had endorsed. Now, how do we know who has authority to declare a war and if a war is something God wants us to do at the moment -- that beats me.

As for deregulating everything, well...my views is a moving target on that point. For months I was reading mises.org (if you want to get a good understanding of free market thinkers, or how anarchy could "work" in theory, look there). But those days, my views have been moderating a bit more on that respect because I'm trying to get recentered back on what the bible REALLY teaches. As it is right now, I think that unlike what lot of Libertarians say, money shouldn't be at the core of policy. There are things in life that are more important than money, and if we don't take care of those areas, well, the love of money can ruin society pretty quickly.

Posted 11/12/2008 8:21 PM by jlyer - reply

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Saw you were looking at the capanna post this morning. If you're going to help out then let me know. I'll try to arange a chance to meet with you there.

Also I wanted you to know I mentioned you in some comments/replies on one of my posts. If I copied the URL right the following should take you right to the link: http://www.xanga.com/nidan/689284512/wpr-liberalism-and-free-market.html?nextdate=1470836820&direction=n

Posted 1/14/2009 7:31 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan - 



Hmm...this morning? I think this afternoon is more like it (about an hour before you posted here). Whew, you really do keep track of who is visiting your site.

Nevertheless...thanks for the compliment. I feel like I don't really help others out that much beyond the writings I do and the money I give to some charities. That post did make me think about what the charities are up to right now. And yes, I'd like to take some time to do some volunteer work for some of those non-profit charities, but I don't know exactly where to get started and what really helps people the most. What does Capanna have in mind?
Posted 1/14/2009 8:26 PM by jlyer - reply

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I don't keep as close a track as my brother, but it's reasonable that he would. (There was a real life incident that has him a bit on the paranoid side.) I do glance at the tracker everyday and sometimes a name or two will jump out at me. I already had yours in my head because of the comments I left on the other post.

I'm not sure what she has in mind. I was thinking about going if scedual permits at least to see what it's about. I don't know her that well, most of the volunteer work I did was for the Eric Massa campaign.

I will say that I would lean a lot more toward going if you were going to be there. At present I'm not sure.

Posted 1/15/2009 2:45 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@jlyer - Just out of curiosity (actually it's so that I can better describe the goal of you site in the future) Wold you have worded that any different or added anything to the statements I made? Any aspects or desires I may have missed?

Posted 1/16/2009 8:38 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan - I think you might be giving me more credit than I deserve. But for that matter -- lately I have been writing more about health related issues. I'm not sure I would word it all that differently because you are right that I really do aim to see the good in other people no matter what their background is and aim to bring it out. I don't necessarily see poor people as deadbeats but there are some that after a time feel that they are "entitled" to the benefits that they are getting simply because they are poor. I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that sometimes poorly thought out and/or poorly ran policies can sometimes have an enabling effect on lifestyles we want to see less of. We don't want to enable bad behaviors, rather encourage good behaviors.

That said, the stated purpose of the blog is to try to cut through junk in this world out there -- like lies that lot of people believe that they should tear down. In that sense, I'm no fan of big companies that lies to get their way, corruption in the political stage (undeserved favor for lobbyist), FDA approving drugs when their management has financial incentive in companies that produces it (example is stock ownership in a startup drug company).

Funny thing about this is...I think my mom once told me many years ago that I would make a good judge. Why? Because I would be tough (not sure about that -- in personal relationship I'm far from tough), and impossible to bribe. That is the type of trait I'd like to see in more people -- honesty even when it goes against their own best interests.
Posted 1/18/2009 8:11 PM by jlyer - reply

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Are you still around? Saw you on my footprints the other day.
Posted 6/22/2009 7:52 PM by nidan Xanga True Member Xanga Premium Member - reply

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@nidan - 

Interesting...xanga stopped emailing me the updates around June 14th, so after that day, I stopped getting it. I didn't even notice until you sent me this comment!

Mainly, I only read what comes in my inbox, not too active on xanga. I post on http://searchingforalethia.wordpress.com more often.
Posted 6/22/2009 9:33 PM by jlyer - reply


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